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Thread: The Pitch.....

  1. #21
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    Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    This is how it's supposed to work: (35:00)

    This is actually a concept called "Quick Pull and Pitch"

    Pitch man retains 1x5 relationship the entire time and is expected to look for the pitch at any time, QB is told after mesh if there's pressure immediately in his face he's supposed to pitch...hence "Quick Pull and Pitch."

    This is not the same concept as attacking your pitch key and forcing him to commit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    But I sure have been seeing a LOT of this: (36:15)

    (In the second example, is blocking being missed, or are we just running the wrong play? The way the defense was lined up, he ran right into the strong side.)

    Was this a blocking problem, a read issue, or a play call problem? (I don't see how it could be a read. You can't read half the team.)

    Just look how the defense lined up. Why couldn't we have run that the other way?
    This is a speed option with no mesh read at the line. Werts attacks the read key and leverages to his inside shoulder and he's out of the play. JD King misses the block that would have sprung Werts for more yardage. Also defense flowed to our movement pretty quick as well. Everything in the play went the same direction, defense just flooded that way.

    It's actually a different look on Load Speed Option with the H-back lead blocking it looks like. We run Load with 3 guys out of the backfield a lot, so this appears to be a way to make it look differently.



    This has happened to some of our better teams in the past. I still have flashbacks of Colton Heagle (#20) from NDSU flying into the alley untouched to shutdown perimeter plays in 2011. A lot of teams have wanted to shut down our pitches and force the QB to beat them. We've just typically had really athletic QBs to make them pay for it. Right now, we're not doing a lot to eliminate defenders flowing to the play. A lot of that is inconsistency in blocking. We also have issues putting the ball in the right spot when the blocking is good. We had several holes open last night that the RBs missed and just went straight into a tackle.

    Overall we just need to improve our consistency in blocking. Without that you're going to see the mixed results we're getting.


  2. #22

    Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Motion would help to keep defenses from bring able to overload a side like that. Even something as simple as moving the H-back keeps the defense a little off-balance. You can use the H-Back as the load lead blocker, you can use him as a puller on a counter play or as a different way to block the inside zone, you can use him as a crack blocker on the end if you pull your guard around on a counter as well. Just moving him in motion to the middle then moving him back to his starting spot makes the defense at least have to think about making an adjustment. Anything we can do to make the defense have to think pre-snap is a good thing. Right now so many of our plays are basic, easy to read and attack. You do not have to come up with fancy blocking or wild sets to be productive, but a little motion just loosens up the defense a little and one linebacker moving 6 inches can sometimes be the difference in a two-yard loss and a 42-yard gain.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglereporter View Post
    Motion would help to keep defenses from bring able to overload a side like that. Even something as simple as moving the H-back keeps the defense a little off-balance. You can use the H-Back as the load lead blocker, you can use him as a puller on a counter play or as a different way to block the inside zone, you can use him as a crack blocker on the end if you pull your guard around on a counter as well. Just moving him in motion to the middle then moving him back to his starting spot makes the defense at least have to think about making an adjustment. Anything we can do to make the defense have to think pre-snap is a good thing. Right now so many of our plays are basic, easy to read and attack. You do not have to come up with fancy blocking or wild sets to be productive, but a little motion just loosens up the defense a little and one linebacker moving 6 inches can sometimes be the difference in a two-yard loss and a 42-yard gain.
    We ran a couple of counters last night that were pretty effective because of that.


  4. Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Thanks guys!

    These insights are very helpful.

    I mentioned during the off-season I would like to learn more about the mechanics of our offense (like some good you tube video or some such) and people pretty much ridiculed me.

    That doesnít bother me in the least, but I have few friends who are football fans, and really no one who is well versed in the how and why of this type of football to ask questions of. (Honestly, outside of the service academies, there arenít many examples of our football.) At any rate, I like to learn more, but Iím just not great at the mechanics of any of this stuff. I donít have the head for it, I guess.

    I do enjoy it when it works, but itís frustrating to me when I see stuff like this and canít figure out whatís wrong.

    Overall, this season just feels so ďoff.Ē Itís like we took a huge step forward last year and somehow three large steps back this season. I am no Xs and Os guy, but this season has never felt good for a solid 3 mins on the clock. We see sputters and spits, but the engine just ainít firing right. I this engine inhale vigorouslyed in a valve.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    Could some of y'all who are expert in this offense help me understand something which is probably pretty basic?

    (Not being sarcastic.)

    What happened to our pitch play?

    I saw numerous times (well, every time that I had a good view) that there were at least 3 defenders coming around as werts turned the corner on the pitch play. Often two defenders were covering Werts, and one was covering the pitch man. All within easy tackling distance.

    That play worked really well for us last season. It has generally always worked pretty well for us. I have always loved the pitch. When done right, it has led to some sweet gains, and now, it's fortunate if we get 3 out of it.

    What has changed? This seems to be a bigger problem than just the O line.

    I understand that Werts is looking at the key to decide whether to keep or pitch. But damned if he doesn't turn that corner to be staring at 2 or 3 "keys." Sometimes, he can out-athlete one of them, but then he usually gets pounced on if he keeps.... The pitch man himself is rarely an option.

    What's getting screwed up now? How come so many of these guys are making it around the corner unblocked.

    (Once again, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm confused. What is the malfunction on this play?)
    The problem is, IMO, that if you are running the Triple or outside portion of the option from the Shotgun "ALL" rushing plays are much easer to read.

    HC Fritz did a great job with the right staff and players, but we have not been able to duplicate that using the Shotgun Option using other staff and players.
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  6. Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    The problem is, IMO, that if you are running the Triple or outside portion of the option from the Shotgun "ALL" rushing plays are much easer to read.

    HC Fritz did a great job with the right staff and players, but we have not been able to duplicate that using the Shotgun Option using other staff and players.

    Ellison sure was something special.

    I loved the way he would stand up and look over to the sideline, like he was thinking about stuff, and sometimes would actually change the play. Messing around like that sure seemed to get into the defenses' heads.

    He also just had such a feel for the offense. So fast with his decisions. He really looked like he knew exactly what everyone on the defense was thinking-and was just making a nice home in their heads.

    Werts has outstanding athleticism, but I'm not sure he will ever have the feel Ellison did. Very few people do.

    Of course, this year who can tell? It would be much easier to say what we are not having problems with..... Snaps are better, guess.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    Ellison sure was something special.

    I loved the way he would stand up and look over to the sideline, like he was thinking about stuff, and sometimes would actually change the play. Messing around like that sure seemed to get into the defenses' heads.

    He also just had such a feel for the offense. So fast with his decisions. He really looked like he knew exactly what everyone on the defense was thinking-and was just making a nice home in their heads.

    Werts has outstanding athleticism, but I'm not sure he will ever have the feel Ellison did. Very few people do.

    Of course, this year who can tell? It would be much easier to say what we are not having problems with..... Snaps are better, guess.
    If you look back at all our great QBs from Erk forward our GREAT QBs did the same things.
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  8. Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    If you look back at all our great QBs from Erk forward our GREAT QBs did the same things.
    True.

    They sure are rare though. I'm concerned about the future. I'm concerned about how many really good ones are still out there. Even in HS, this type of football done with any kind of consistency is getting pretty rare.

  9. #29

    Default Re: The Pitch.....



    Watch this jcountry

    https://youtu.be/sBjSM5xXcLc

  10. Default Re: The Pitch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerEagle View Post


    Watch this jcountry

    https://youtu.be/sBjSM5xXcLc
    Thats how it’s supposed to work.

    But damn. We sure appear to be missing a lot of blocking.

    I see linemen and tackles make their initial blocks, but then sort of give up.

    Is that where the secondary blocks are getting screwed up?

    I often see two or three more LBs or even safeties chasing this kind of play down now.

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